1975, March 20: Blackacre
title:
Blackacre: 1975, March 20
creator:
School of Law
date:
1975-03-20
description:
Student newspaper for the School of Law
description:
Cody,Latherow,Leahy vie forSBA what problems remain. · Jerry Latherow and Tom T_,eahy, both second year day tudents, have filed petitions for the office of SBA president for the 1975-1976 academic year. Latherow is a native of La Harpe, Illinois, a small farming community near Galesburg. He is an ISU graduate and has been an SBA representative the past two years and served on the academic standards committee. He 1s a member of the chan- · pionship Law School I..eague basketball team. . Leahy is a Highland Park native and Notre Dame graduate. He served as chairman of the student information committee of the SBA tills year and also participated on the championship Law School I..eague basketball team. Both these candidates were part-time contributors to Blackacre this year. A first year student, Tom Cody, has also entered the race for the top SBA spot. Born and raised on Chicago's northwest side, Cody graduated from Circle and then obtained an M.B.A. from DePaul. The candidates for the three other executive offices are: for Vice-Pres1dent, Marge Orbon, Richard Marcus and J a c k Moran; for Secretary, Mike Hallahan and Peggy Scanlan; and for Treasurer, Robert C. Moore and Riff Scholz. Tom Cody Blackacre requested all candidates to answer a questionnaire pertaining to the campaign. Following are the responses of the three presidential contestants. 1. What specific steps will you take regarding: (a) classroom situation; (b) curriculum shortcomings; (c) teacher shortages; (d) minority recruitment; (e) discrepancies between night and day tuition Cody: We all know the classroom situation is intolerable, yet SBA officers can't personally build classrooms. Hiring quality professors will help the meager curriculum. What specific steps can an SBA officer take about Benson, Brittain ·Jerry Latherow these problems? Additional money could help, better and closer ·relations with alumni could alleviate this. More importantly, leading student o~ inion into bringing pressures into the 'powers' in the university. Any inequities of tuition between night and day students are the result of having SBA officers who don't really care. A member of this slate went to evening school for undergrad- -Tom Leahy uate anf graduate school, giving more understanding of the pro!> lems of the evening student. Latherow: (a) Basically I feel that our classroom problems are solved. For the professors who need a microphone I think the new Dean could require usage without any trouble. If and when the professor slots are filled the · class enrollment should decrease and in effect eliminate (b) Iwouldstonglyurge that Loyola make a good faith effort to work out agreements with other schools so ~t high salary demands of attorneys who are experts in particular f1elds could be met. If the present slots were we would of course make inrnCJr•AC!C in this area and elimithe substitution arrangeof placing an instructor in classroon "teaching" an area of the law with which he or she has little familiarity. (c) There can be no legitimate excuse for teacher shortages. The number of people searching for employment with. in this area is devastating and consequently there is no valid reason why Loyola has not been . able to find qualified people to fill th openings. However, in · attempting to recruit a faculty member from another law school in Chicago I was told by him that he would be confronted with a substantial decrease in salary if he were to make a transition to Loyola. This problem of lower salaries would be my primary concern if I were to become President of the SBA. Continued .>age 2 Black©)~CF® urgeparticipation~L•o~~-~~Un•~•e•~•~•y•~•h•oo•l•o•f•L•~~:~M~a~r~c~h~2~0,~1~9~n.V~~o~I.~3~N~o~.~1~1~ Student representatives on the this is a good place to be." did Dean Search Commi~e have Brittain added that it is impor-D . . • t called for strong student parti- tant to show the candidates that ean can a es cipation in the upcoming candi- any problems that exist at date interviews. The first inter- Loyola, "aren't because there is view sessillns will be held this an inferior quality student." Sunday, March 23, at 11:00 a.m. Benson and Brittain each re-and 12:00 noon in the Moot marked that the Dean Search Courtroom, and both Cynthia Committee is very enthusiastic Benson (3D) and Max Brittain about the candidates that will be (2D) have expressed the hope interviewed. Although exact that as many students as possi- numbers are not yet available, it ble be present to participate. is known that there were over 25 "All we've done so far is applicants. Committee Head, screening," said Brittain, "a Professor William Lamey function that anyone - students, stated, "we got a much larger faculty, or alumni could per- number of qualified applicants form. It will be difficult from than I personally anticipated we here on. It will be less difficult if would. That made the Commit-students help by going to the tee's task more difficult, and in a interviews, reading about the way, simpler, because we could candidates, and making sugges- make these decisions strictly on tions to us." "Student participa- a camparative basis; and the tion is most significant in the Committee has done, in my direction of informing the candi- Qpinion, exactly that." j.f. dates," added Benson. "The student body is the great unknown to the candidates. I think the student body is one of the best things we have to offer a new dean." Both Brittain and Benson emphasized that the student interviews will serve two purposes. By participating, students will inform themselves about the candidates and their relative capabilities. This, it is hoped, will better enable to make suggestions to the Dean Search representatives, who consider it part of their job to collect student response. "At this stage," said Ms. Benson, "we want as much feedback as possible." ~~~:r:!!~~!d2.§.!fllday head of the Dean Search Com- Matre, with the Dean Search more than a willingness to meet mittee has announced that two Committee, and with the Law with the students. In fact, they candidates will be at the Law School Faculty. Sunday at 11:00 have all at least tacitly exSchool this weekend, March 22 a.m., Chitlik will be present in pressed a desire to meet with the and 23, for interviews. He con- the moot courtroom for student students. They'd like to get an firmed that Loyola Professor interviews. Professor Michael idea of what you're like; but Richard Michael, and Edward will be interviewed at 12:00 also to get an idea of what you Chitlik of Cleveland Marshall noon. All sb1dents are urged to think the problems are." Law School would be the first attend. Max Brittain, student repretwo candidates to meet with the Professor Lamey was asked sentative to the Dean Search Law School community. There how prepared candidates (aside Committee, encouraged stuwill be two, and possibly three from Professor Michael) will be dents to prepare, and come to • more candidates interviewed to respond to student questions Sunday's interviews ready .to over the weekend of AprilS and about problems facing the Law test both candidates. "Any 6. School. "It's hard to tell how question is game f!lr the canili- Michael and Chitlik will each much of a problem that will be," dates," he said. Brittain out-meet on Saturday with Univer- lined the procedure for selecting the new dean after the April 'interviews are over. Based on their own opinions, and upon response from students and ·faculty to the interviews, the Dean Search Committee will suggest three names to University President, Father Raymond Baumhart for the final selection. . Brittain said that Baumhart has assured the Committee that he will not choose the new dean outside of the three Committee . recommendations. 1 Late Tuesday, the SBA announced the format for the Sunday interviews. Students who wish to submit anonymous · questions to the candidates must type them, and deliver them to · the second floor faculty rece~ tion area. These questions will : be the first directed to the : candidates. The questic'lS sui> The second purpose of the interviews is to demonstrate to the candidates, through a concerned student response, that Loyola is a quality law school. "Part of the reason they're coming here is that they're going to interview us," said Benson. "We have to convince them that Dean Search Committee student representative, Max Brittain · mitted by the SBA will be next on the agenda. Finally, the floor will be opened to anyone who ·wishes to participate in the interviewing process. j.f. SBA about what an employer will think aoout hirmg a radical who is raising all sorts of ruckus on campus. Latherow: The officers of SBA obviously must spearhead the communications with the University. A more open and communicative situation is necessary not only with the University but with the law students. Hopefully an SBA column in Blackacre could be arranged where the officers would report what is being accomplished on the SBA. Leahy: The SBA President should be honest and efficient in dealing with internal matters, and clear and forceful in his presentation of student concerns to the University and Law School Administration. ------- 1 What is your opinion of the way the Law School is run? Cody: . Considering the resources, pretty well but don't forget we have to break in a new dean, we j will want to have a loud voice in the selection orocess. An exception is the llb!"ary where Mr. Kulys must go or at least change his ways He has accused the first year class of which we are members, of being thieves. He claims we "come from a different population Ahan the other students". If ,there were more than three copies of Calamari,. students might not feel a need to steal them so they would have them for finals. Instead of more security devices - more books. An adversary relationship between the first year class and Mr. Kulys must end - replace him. Latherow: The University's controls over the law school are definitely too strict in the sense that financial leeway, fluctuation, and status are totally out of the law school's hands. Many of the problems which the Dean has I received criticism on in his form of running the law school are the fault of the University and should be remedied there. I personally feel that the Dean has for the most part been fair with the students and would 'meet half-way in his negotiations with students if they in turn attempted to perceive the posi-tion he was on. One of the largest problems within the law school power structure is the substantial amount of unquestioned control the faculty contams. Leahy: Loyola Law School is at times an inefficient and haphazard educational institution. There is little internal communication, eKept for Blackacre, there is a woefully inadequate staff; and there is a genuine lack of concern on the part of some faculty and administrators. This is probably due, in part, to the school's lack of . autonomy, but much could be done to professionalize student affairs such as registration, cu,rriculum selection, the Law Journal, and Moot Court selec-tion. · What prior experiences will be helpful to you as an officer? Cody: Tremendous organizational ability, brilliant mind, superb physical specimen, modesty forbids me to continue .... (Mr. Cody did not respond to the remaining questions.) Latherow: . Tnroughout the majority of my years in secondary and higher education I have participated in student government. :l ~ This experience not only in- • . )l{(Aj eludes two years as a member of ~ -*' ............ _......., the SBA, but also as a member : l. 0\1\- and officer . of comparable organizations at various times. As .1: l'l t:!.~ President of tile Student Senate · Gt-<oJh:n-T~~ -a"~~\:0~ at Carl Sandburg College I ~,.,r.. .. rn q4,-1'()l)...,;l worked on almost a day to day ~(o ([..~~-Ot«<· basis with the school adminis$ 5.00 Personal Property $9.95 Real Property Remedies $7.50 Income Tax I $5.00 Income Tax II $6.95 Labor Law $6.95 Administrative Law $6.95 Agency and $6.95 Antitrust ltl l97~ Tne Gap Pair· up with levi's tration and on various occassions took the student's problems and requests to the College Board and the President of the school. I feel my receiving that school's student achievement BLACKACRE, March 20, 1975 page 3 1 award for the "hiP"best contribution to the .:ollege" was mainly based on my performance as President of the , Student Senate in obtaining sue. cessful results while in con' frontation with the administra-tion. Leahy: This year I served as SBA Information Chairman. I at- I . tended most every SBA meeting and reported for Blackacre on SBA acnvities. I have worked closely with Tom McCauley and Law School and University officials regarding SBA funding, . the Student Activity fee, school programs, and variou other subjects. What concrete plans/suggestions do you have for SBA for next year? Latherow: If elected, I would change the role of the SBA into a more school-wide organization. An example of this · would be an active campaign to get students other than SBA members to be on the various student-faculty committees. I realize that the SBA members were elected to represent the classes, but there are many qualified students who cannot satisfy the time requirement for SBA but would be excellent members of particular committees. This past fall a second year student who helped revamp the freshmen curriculwn at Northwestern could not be a member of the Curriculum Committee here because the appointments were already made. Leahy: Specifically, I would like to see the SBA adopt a more re- 1tiable method of course evaluations and a more useful presentation of course summaries for pre-registration use. Pr«;>fessor McCormack, another student, and myself are organizing suggestions now. Hopefully, the whole process of registration can be professionalized, so tha; · there is adequate course selection for day and night students. Secondly, tne night school !tuition must be lowered to the day level. And thirdly, the SBA must receive more of the Activi_' ty Fee funds than they have. _ What kind of relationship should exist among administrators, faculy and students at the Law School? Latherow: Obviously I woUld think that the students need a stronger voice in making decisions which the faculty and administration are determining solely on their own. This University seems to lose sight of the fact that this is a professional school and that the students are quite capable of determining such matters as what profe~: sors are or are not competent and worthy of maintaining employment at· this school. I have no fear of abuse if such powers were under student control. Leahy: The ideal relationship would be a much more open and communicative one. There is too much secrecy and not enough discussion of important matters. $9.95 Civq Procedure $5.95 Commercial Paper $5.95 Community Property $7.50 Conflict of Laws $9.95 Constitutional Law $7.95 Contracts kathy jerry sam debbie richard $7.95 Corporations $7.50 Criminal Law $8.50 Criminal Procedure · $6.50 Estate and Gift Tax $7.95 Ev1dence FGture Interests · $6.95 Sales $6.50 Secured Transaction $7.95 Torts $6.95 Trusts $6.50 Wills Ctll'lftfit p,.;,tuJ 837 NORTH STAT.E 337·'7022 Reswnes Reproduced . Personal & Business Stationery w_~~<!in~ I~~~~tiE~. Custom .~d ~.E!!!fu>~l. :Fast Printing Do it together. Pick from the world's greatest selection of Levi's." Over 4 tons per store. The latest styles, color and fabrics. Levi'sthat's all we carry. So have a fit. In Levi's Jeans. 111 E. Chicago· Ave. Chicago 60611 fran brian bill want YOU to know that YOUR PLACE TO MEET 806 N. Rush 787-5435 tony noel bruce OLD TIMERS NEW TIMERS and FIRST TIMERS BLACKACRE, March 20, 1975 page 4 .. terviewers . I Night school- to be or not to be Janega, Abrams and Hall all feel that content, approach and quality of the classes were the same in both divisions. Janega and Abrams find the lack of communication and cooperation disturbing. Abrams said "I think the information to students is atrocious. There is no genuine · communication between the night students and the school - no ' strength, no build-up of ties. 1 Day or night, the law is the · far as being prepared, I've found 1 law. And so it is with law schools · there is a built-in level of en- or should be - or cannot be, thusiasm in all freshmen, day depending upon your point of and night. Upperclassmen are view. Such examples of the ' not as well prepared, but all discussions taking place in law students tend to prepare less and schools and be bar associations less each success1ve year. Look, point up the controversies sur- they're tired." rqunding part-time legal educa- Equilibrating standards betion in this country. The Oif- tween full and part-time proficulhes these programs pre- ' grams is the current trend in sently face, especially in view of legal education. Most deans and the state of the economy and the faculty members interviewed in current controversies within the the AAI.S study indicated they legal profession itself could sig- are trying the "equivalency nal the demise of part-time legal · concept" by applying the same · education as it exists today. or higher administrative stan- Part-time programs are often dards to evening applicants by accused of having lower admis- employing as many full-time sion standards, lower teaching teachers in evening as in day, by standards, lower expectations - offering similar courses, assignall of which tend to depreciate ments, and exams. · the value of a law school's The administration at Loyola full-time degree. Part-time stu- . has also adopted the "equivadents are said to be less serious, lency concept." Associate Dean less prepared and academically Leroy Tornquist explains: "I inferior to full-time law stu- think the day and evening people dents. Whether these be stereo- should be treated the same- the types or verities, the fact is that same required hours, the same many professors and adminis- tuition. A Loyola University trators hold these views which ,legal education should mean the pose a serious threat to the con- same thing in both programs." tinued existence of part-time But the nagging doubt still legal education. exists, Tornquist continued, "I A 1972 study on part-time legal tbinRt's worthy of study. There education, completed by the As- . are advantages and disadvan-sociation of American Law tages to an evening program. Schools (AAl.S) states that the . Evening students show greater enrollment in the 53 American divergence in age, more exBar Association (ABA)-ap- perience, and generally more proved evening programs (out of maturity. However there's gena total of 145 approved schools) erally a greater disparity bedeclined from 34% in 1960 to 22% tween the top and bottom stuof total law school enrollment in dent performance. Day people 1971. In addition, graduates of tend to be just out of college and evening programs number less more alike. than 10 percent of the new bar · "The question calls for a lot of admittees due to the fact that discussion," Tornquist believes. more evening students use their "It's difficult to recruit new legal education for advancement faculty : 1) because some in their business careers. faculty applicants don't want to Evening studentS also have a teach in a schbol witl1 an evening higher attrition rate than day division; and 2.) because the students. According to the image of the entire school is study, day students outnumber affected by the presence of an evening students four to one in evening program. I've gone to approved schools but about nine Harvard and Yale recruiting times as many day students and it really makes a difference graduate. Last semester at . when I tell them we have an Loyola University Law School, evening school. I don't know if day students out-numbered · that's snobbishness or what. evening students approximately Bust those schools with an two to one, yet only four percent evening division tend to be less of the day students were dis- prestigious in faculty applimissed as compared to 16 per- cants' eyes. cent on the evening class. ·~Another disadvantage" Nevertheless, the AAl.S study Tornquist said, "stems from the concludes evening education has · lingering attitudes of older a prima facie claim to accep- members of the bar who tend to tability as it broadens educa- think of evening students as tiona! opporturuties and makes inferior and this tends to rub off. the profession more representa- · I think this has come to be tive of the country's diverse because in some schools there population. Whereas as one time are differences in the quality of there was a qualitative differ- the programs. But, too, the ence between day and evening organized bar tends to be preprograms, the study claims, now judiced against evening stuthe difference is more one of . dents. degree. For while evening stu- From Tornquist's point of dents must work more and view "There are many sides. more day stude~ts are also Some say we should do away employed to keep differentiating with the evening programs and full and part-time students -lack provide more day sections and of study time - is moving toward scholarhips for those who cannot equalization. affort to attend law school. But Assistant Professor Nina Ap- we 'have many people who are pel, agrees with this viewpoint. excellent law students who just She told BLACKACRE that "I do couldn't afford to go in the day. criticism] is justified. Students are tired and aren't as well prepared, and the professors are tired too by the time they get to their evening class. And just its presence [an evening division] tends to lower the value of the whole university's degree. Our internal feelings regarding a part-time program 'don't really matter. You can't fight everyone on the outside." "However, though evening student are generally not as prepared, they're better students," Horton thinks. "They participate and analyze anyway. My second year night t:lass is my best class ever. There's a big difference in the level of experience and my biggest adjustment was that I had to approach the night classes differently than I did those in the day, even though it was the same course. The night students have already had a year of law school (property is a second year course in the evening) and I didn't have to play the little games with them, such as here-l-am-law-student-talk-tome- type thing." One fourth-year evening student, Nina Abrams, agrees with this opinion saying, "I deliberately decided to go to the night school. Night students are infinitely more interesting to be with. They're either professional students to some extent or people returning. I look around some of my day classes and the faces are all so young. School is very difficult and very expen, sive. There's no one to counsel you at night so your first year is like college hazing. You either survive or you don't. But I don't think evening students care about grades as much as those in I , the day. They don't perceive the world in terms of grades needed . for interviews, as they have : other qualifications. The day students just don't function in · t!_l_~_ same way." thinlthe night school performs a Scholarship funds are not pre-valuable service and that it sently avajlable for them." should continue. I have ex- Indeed, the AAl.S study indi- I cellent students at night - really . cated that 75 percent of those . top notch. In fact, my best three attending an evening division exam papers last semester were now say they could not go during be evening students." the day - full-time. Due to Ms. Appel continued. "I've increased tuition and living exnever had different standards or penses as well as family resa different approach at night ponsibilites, loans and scholarthan in the day. I thinka law , ships, the statistics indicate, , degree is a law degree and the would simply be insufficient. standards should be the same in · Don Horton, assistant profesboth sections. A client doesn't sor, admitted that when he first have the opportunity to discover came to Loyola he felt the if a lawyer graduated from a day evening programs should be or evening law program. And as phased out, but now he is unsure. 810 North Wabash He explained, "A lot of [the The job market is one area where evening students often face discrimination. Clara Coleman, placement director, said that those just starting into legal work do seem to have more difficulty. But many already have careers and wellpaying • jobs and want to enhance their earning power. The evening students' biggest problem, according to Coleman, is adjusting down to a starting legal salary - a problem most day students don't encounter. However, Colemar: did admit that she doesn't get to talk to too many ev~ning students. But Kathy Janega, a second year-evening student, has worked- vigorously toward equalizing academic requirements to unseat the job market bias. Presently, evening students need only 80 hours to graduate as compared to 86 for full-time students. She explains this by saying, "The only difference there should be between the evening and day divisions is the time we go to class. Increased credits would require adjustment on the part of students as far as reorganizing time, as well as adjustment by the administration in providing classes. But the discrepancy in required hours leads to unjust discrimination in the job market." Tom Hall, a tirst year evening student, said that for him "legal writing is a most disruptive thing. You can't give it the time it needs. It should be picked up in the summer. You know it's valuable, but unless you're willing to fall behind in something else, and there's no time to catch up, legal writing is the course that has to suffer.,., Thus there is less opportunity to develop good writing skills so important to employers. Moreover, Nina Abrams believes, something similar to the law review should be offered for evening student.c: as ·it is viewed highly be in-. Teachers are really fund-raisers as far as making friends with students since students are ultimately the ones to contribute as alunmi. Yet there isn't cultivation. Professors don't conceive of their roles as such and therefore no loyolty is fostered." Janega continue, "I think the big difference is is perspective, due to the fact that the evening students are also trying to survive financially and take a much more personal interest in what's happening at the school. I think the day students are younger, a little sheltered, and probably subsidized, so we're a lot more concerned about what we get for our money." Janega emphasized most im-portantly the need for change. She stated, "The dean is our highest priority next to tuition. If we are to improve, it would take a firm commitment from a dean to see that the school is staffed properly. But I really want to stress that simply because people in the evening division go to school at a different time of day and are busy with other non-school related things during the rest of the day, does not mean they are not thoroughly interested in what's going on and therefore should no be precluded from the planning." Whether the law school will begin to approach solutions to the various complaints raised by part-time students and whether the university will make a firm commitment to the continuation of part-time legal education remains to be seen. From a sampling of opinion around Loyola it can be seen that the interest in the topic is ripening in more ways than one. m.l. ' . FOR GOOD REASON
subject:
Loyola University Chicago
subject:
School of Law
subject:
Students
subject:
legal news
subject:
local
description:
Blackacre
relation:
University Archives Publications Collection
description:
PDF
rights:
Loyola University of Chicago. Contact the Loyola University Chicago Archives & Special Collections for permission to copy or publish.
identifier:
blackacre3201975.pdf
source:
blackacre3201975
type:
text
language:
English
publisher:
Loyola University Chicago Archives and Special Collections https://www.luc.edu/archives
description:
https://www.luc.edu/archives
